The Ecclesia Network

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Leader Profile: Stephen Redden

Stephen Redden is one of the founding pastors of NDC and oversees our church multiplication efforts. He is also the director of The Church Cooperative of Denver, the local church network NDC helped launch in 2017. He is a graduate of Mississippi State University (B.S. Computer Engineering, M.B.A.) and Dallas Theological Seminary (M.A. Biblical Studies). Stephen also does a variety of projects outside of NDC. He is the founder of Third Circle, a consultative coaching practice, where he works with individuals and organizations to maximize their effectiveness.  Between 1996 and 2000 Stephen worked as an information technology specialist at IBM Global Services before leaving to work on a project with Mission Aviation Fellowship in Kazakhstan and Russia in 2000-2001. After returning to the US in 2001, Stephen joined the staff at North Point Community Church to help lead the Community Groups ministry. Stephen married Kate in 2002, and they welcomed their first son, Ethan, in 2004 and were blessed again in 2007 with the arrival of their second son, Andrew. Stephen loves football (Go Broncos and Hail State!) and futbol (Go Rapids and Gunners!), snowboarding, and considers himself a closet redneck and a geek at heart.

How would you describe the area your church is in?

Urban neighborhood

How would you describe the journey of pastoring New Denver? What have been some of the milestones/different seasons?

We started the church 10 years ago, and I was one of the founding pastors. In that time there have been a number of seasons and milestones along the way. The early years were marked by a lot of work to slowly build relationships and patiently serve our fledgling community as it grew slowly. In time, somewhere around year four, we hit a point where momentum began to build and we began to feel more stable. We had a steady self-sustaining community and focused on the tasks of growing our roots deeper. In some ways that season continues today in our main location, but four years ago we committed to making significant investments in multiplying our influence. We built on the momentum of our existing ministry residency and started a church planting residency as well. Two years ago we helped our first church planting resident launch a new church – Westside Church Internacional – a bi-lingual, multicultural church in west Denver. Today we continue to look for opportunities to grow and expand our influence at New Denver, but we are also exploring opportunities to bring on another church planting resident or work with an existing church to replant or revitalize a community.

Looking back, what do you know now you wish you had known when you first started New Denver?

Perseverance is the key to longevity in ministry. Everyone faces challenges and adversity, and things rarely go the way that you expect. If you can hold your expectations open-handed before God and believe that he is always at work in ways that you cannot fathom or understand, it allows you to persevere through the inevitable highs and lows of pastoral ministry.

As you think about what you’ve been able to do so far in ministry there what are some things you have done/tried that have worked well?

From the beginning, we sought to be a values-driven church. Our values have changed over time, but our commitment to discerning the few things we want to focus on as a community has remained consistent. This clarity of values helps us to know who we are and how we focus our limited energy and resources. In pursuit of living out those values, we never get too attached to programs or methodologies. One of our values is community, and to date, we’ve tried a variety of different approaches to living that out. The goal remains the same, but we hold loosely to our strategies. Lastly, I think one thing we’ve done well is to try and steward the people who come through our community well. Our city is very transient, and it has been easy at times to get cynical about how many people come and go. But the more we remain open-handed – celebrating people when they come and when they go and making the most to guide them and develop them while we’re here, we seem to see God bless and multiply our efforts.

What hasn’t worked so well? What have you had to rethink/reimagine/rework?

We’ve had to re-think evangelism over and over. In the early days, we were so desperate to “get the word out” and make new connections that it was difficult to be patient to see and appreciate the slow work of God. We were always pushing people to invest in others and to invite them to church. As we have been able to grow slowly, it has allowed us to be patient and see that in very post-Christian contexts like Denver, it may be years to see people open to engaging somehow in the life of the church.

What is one failure you experienced and what did you learn from it?

In the early days, we were trying to create gatherings to build relationships and get some momentum going. I remember we did an event at someone’s house, bought a bunch of food, and invited 20-25 people. Three people showed up. It was so disappointing, but I tried to value and appreciate those three people well. It prepared me for the coming years when there would be low-attendance Sundays or seasons when attendance and participation would mysteriously drop. We developed a mantra – “Love the church you have, not the church you want to have.”

What is something you’ve been hearing from or learning from God in this last season of leading?

I turn 49 this year, and over the last few years, God has been impressing on me that innovation and leadership to engage coming generations doesn’t come from 50 and 60-year-olds. It’s time for me to start getting serious about moving from the “front” to the “back” – to get behind younger leaders and use everything I have to push them forward. This is not something that I’ve seen done particularly well by the church leaders in the generations ahead of me, but it’s something I’m convinced we need to do better.

What do you dream/hope/pray New Denver looks like in five years?

In five years I’d love to see us continuing to grow and engage people at our current location. We currently share space with the aging and dwindling congregation that owns the building where we meet. It’s been a great relationship, but over the last few years, we’ve felt constrained by their refusal to make space for us to grow by adding additional Sunday services. It would be great to get that resolved. But I’d also like us to continue to engage with reaching people through church planting and looking for ways to invest outside our current community.

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Becoming a Distributed Church without Becoming a VIRTUAL Church.

One of the things I have thought a lot about over the last two decades is the intersection of technology and church, particularly as it relates to how church communities are formed or mal-formed by their use of technology.

The current crisis of quarantines and social distancing has led to nearly all churches developing an online presence and streaming their worship and teaching. Many were prepared because they have been doing so for years, developing digital congregations who’ve never been a part of a live gathering, or “podrishioners” who have connected to the church via the medium of podcasting. Others have been scrambling to figure out how to be the church when we can’t be with each other.

In this time of upheaval and racing to figure out how to keep the basics of community together without physical presence, there is an opportunity for formation, but also a danger of malformation.

1st, Christianity is an incarnational faith, an embodied vision of the advancing Kingdom of God.

That’s not to say that spiritual impact can’t be made from a distance, but it should shape how we interact over distances. In other words, if the ecclesia is the “gathered” group of believers, then during this time substituting watching a video of a church service for the actual fellowship, accountability, touch, and sacrament of gathering is just virtual church… just church enough to be dangerous. Dangerous because it cements people into patterns of passivity, of watching rather than participating, of judging the quality of the service as they are serviced by religious professionals rather than experientially joining with others in listening to the Spirit of God.

But… If during this time, our preaching becomes more interactive, and more voices are heard, not less (1 Cor. 14:16), if we see people who would normally enter and exit a church service without speaking to others now discussing the Word in breakout rooms, getting to know others, praying for others, people sharing their requests and thanksgiving with the whole body, becoming more mindful of the needs of others in their church, the ecclesia will be closer to what it was meant to be after this crisis than it was before. More of the Body of Christ using their gifts for the good of others, not less, more people feeling connected and cared for, not less, and more people invited into the Kingdom and folded into the body of Christ because they went online looking for some encouraging content to consume, but instead found a community of people ready, willing and able to use digital connection as a bridge to real-life connection and companioning.

2nd, the choice between walking down the road to virtual church or distributed church is a choice being made right now, this minute.

As you are thinking and planning (and hopefully praying about) what you are planning for the next few weekends, the question is not “How do we do everything we normally do on Sundays in the same way we normally do it- just digitally and with increasing excellence?” The real question should be “What opportunities does this crisis and this medium, in particular, offer our church for growing deeper and broader? What does the Spirit want to do in us during this time?” One thing I’m fairly certain God is uninterested in doing is making you into a fantastic producer of digital church service shows for people to passively consume.

In fact, my prayer during this time is that God will use this crisis in North America to break us of our consumerism, to deepen our hunger for real connection, to disperse more and more of the Church from mega-gatherings of people there for religious goods and services to smaller groups of Christians, equipped by their leaders, blessed and sent to do the work of ministry themselves in their particular contexts of neighborhood, schools, and work.

3rd, understand that when life begins to go back to normal, people will be back at work long before they are “back at” church.

My suspicion is that restriction of gatherings of 50+, 100+, 1000+ will continue for a while as we deal with waves of infection rising and falling. That means that the future of the church (at least in the near term) is found in distributing itself, not in creating clever workarounds for a couple of weeks until we can get back in the building.

Many churches will not survive the coming months. That’s a harsh reality we’re going to have to deal with. The ones who don’t aren’t necessarily big or small, young or old. They are the churches for whom the Sunday gathering is the irreducible minimum without which they cannot survive. I suspect the churches that do survive are the ones who right now are ramping up their equipping efforts, not their production values. They are driving hard toward a vision of a distributed church, where they may gather to worship together (digitally or otherwise), but everyone knows the majority of the work of ministry is happening throughout the week, because discipleship and nothing else, is their highest value.

Churches that focus on digital excellence and producing a virtual version of their Sunday gathering will find only fewer people in the seats when they are able to reopen their doors, because they’ve shown people a more comfortable alternative to getting up and getting dressed on Sunday morning- a way to “get their church on” without leaving home, speaking to another person, or being asked to serve in any meaningful way.

But, churches that focus on becoming more distributed during this time will find themselves with new life after this crisis is over- fresh expressions of church being birthed out of the connections that have been made, by the people who have been encouraged to step up and lead out in ministry to others, in places that will be open to smaller gatherings long before mega-churches are able to reopen.

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Becoming a Distributed Church: Why It’s Worth the Shift

If the government restricted your church from gathering each Sunday, what would your church look like? 

If your church was unable to gather in groups larger than 50, or even 10, what would your church look like? And how would it shape the way you think about your church in how it joins God’s mission? 

Over the past several years I’ve posed these hypothetical questions to numerous groups of church leaders. In light of the COVID-19 global pandemic, these questions are no longer hypothetical; they are our new reality, whether we like it or not. 

As we’ve already felt – and will continue to feel for quite some time – the myriad effects of the coronavirus, the Church is in unprecedented times. How shall we respond? Despite the difficulties, uncertainties, and setbacks this has brought (and will continue to bring) to our global village, there are many reasons for hope as we think about what localized distributed expressions and extensions of the Church could look like.  

But this will necessitate an un-learning and relearning, which will require large doses of wisdom, courage, and compassion. American futurist Alvin Toffler said,  “The illiterate of the 21st century will not be those who cannot read and write, but those who cannot learn, unlearn and relearn.”And so, it is with courage that we must lean into these unprecedented times by being prepared and ready, while also remaining full of hope and expectancy for the Spirit to work. And it is our calling to follow that Spirit. 

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Leader Profile: Adam Avery

Adam Avery is one of the Pastors at Church At the Well in Burlington, VT. Asie from having been once punched in the arm by Bernie Sanders, he’s also the newest member of the Ecclesia Board.

How would you describe the area your church is in?

All of New England has a strong “town hall” vibe to it. Slow is valued here because anything worthwhile will take time and need to be talked out and walked out. It’s a fun contest for ministry because it’s interactive and very thoughtful. When people decide to follow Jesus here, it’s legit. They’ve taken the time to process it and think it through and when they’re ready, they’re ready.

How would you describe the journey of pastoring Church At the Well? What have been some of the milestones/different seasons?

So many milestones and monuments have been built over the 11 years I’ve been here. The one we’re celebrating most these days is financial sustainability and increased staffing. We’ve done so much with so little for so long that we’re blown away at God’s provision during this current season. It’s been 10 years in the making and God has been faithful at every turn.

Looking back, what do you know now you wish you had known when you first started Church At the Well?

I wish I had known that God is never in a hurry and it’s ok for a church to go 2 steps forward and 1 step back. Owning that from the get-go would have been extremely helpful. Losing & finding new worship space, saying goodbye to friends who moved away, financial ups and downs, seasons of transition, etc. are all part of the dance called ministry. It isn’t a comfortable dance to learn, but when you figure it out it feels more graceful than it used to.

As you think about what you’ve been able to do so far in ministry there what are some things you have done/tried that have worked well?

Team ministry and collaboration. I always believed in it conceptually, but I’m sold on it through and through now. Plurality of leadership is tricky at times but well worth it.

What hasn’t worked so well? What have you had to rethink/reimagine/rework?

Ha! Almost everything! We’re constantly debriefing and tweaking things around here. One of our mantras is that structure must submit to spirit, so we even rework and rethink the things that are working!

What is one failure you experienced and what did you learn from it?

Not asking for help. There have been numerous occasions when Ian, Abby and I (staff pastors) have stepped into roles and responsibilities that we should have invited others into instead of taking them on ourselves. We’ve succumbed to micro-managing on more than one occasion and have learned that it robs us and our community of opportunities to serve God and others faithfully. Paying your taxes hurts a little, but it builds infrastructure and more opportunities for growth and discipleship.

What is something you’ve been hearing from or learning from God in this last season of leading?

How important consistent communication is. Sometimes I fall prey to the notion that if it’s clear in my own head and I’ve talked about it once or twice, everyone else is right there with me. “Town Hall meetings are valuable and worth the time, Adam” – that’s what God has been saying.

What do you dream/hope/pray Church At the Well looks like in five years?

We’re praying that Church At the Well will become more of a place (we’re currently renting space only on Sunday morning and want more of a physical presence) and a community where people are invited to practice the way of Jesus with us and thirst for the life that he alone can give.

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A Thought at the Beginning of Lent: She, Out of Her Poverty, Gave

“Calling his disciples to him, Jesus said, ‘Truly I tell you, this poor widow has put more into the treasury than all the others. They all gave out of their wealth; but she, out of her poverty, put in everything—all she had to live on.'”


I was remembering recently a time when, years ago, during a group lectio divina meditation on this Scripture, the line the Holy Spirit highlighted for me was this: “She, out of her poverty…”

As we sat with this passage, the question that came up for me was “Where is MY poverty?… And what would it look like to give out of it?”

I suspect that too often, in our context, we are overly-focused on giftedness. We want people to know their gifts (and ours) and, in a sense, to operate out of their “riches.” When it becomes clear that someone is good at something, or has resources in a particular area, we want them to begin serving, giving, worshiping God with that. And so the musician who plays well is encouraged to play for God. When it becomes clear someone can speak and communicate well, we encourage her to use that gift for God and for us. The good graphic designer is pressed into using that gift for the community, the natural leader to lead, the one with the gift of hospitality to be hospitable. And there’s nothing wrong with that. God has given those gifts to us for a reason.

But giving out of our gifts, out of the riches of what we do well and willingly is easy. Maybe too easy, in many ways.

Giving out of our gifts, out of the riches of what we do well and willingly is easy. Maybe too easy, in many ways. Click To Tweet

In sitting with the question of where my poverty lies, I realized- we all have areas within ourselves of relative riches and relative poverty. And God wants it all. He created us, bought us at great cost to Himself, and desires that we give to Him our whole selves- that our worship of, devotion to, service of Him be wholistic.

But I wonder if, like us, God tends to smile at certain gifts more than others- not that He doesn’t take delight in all service, all worship honestly given, but…
In the same way we value the hand-made gift, the hand-written note, the thing that shows effort and thought, I wonder if God sees gifts given out of our riches a little differently than gifts given out of our poverty? The easy gift of operating out of our strength vs the harder gift of having to dig deep into our less-comfortable and less competent places.

For me I know I am very comfortable in certain areas of ministry and less so in others.

And as I sat, meditating on this, I became convinced that God wants me to worship Him not simply out of my surplus- to give to Him what costs me little because I have so much of it, or am good at it. He does want those things- but perhaps what is more worshipful of Him, more forming for me, and ultimately maybe even better for others is when I take stock of the areas where I am poor and decide to give God everything I have there- to step out, and as an act of worship, do what is less comfortable, less likely to end with the positive ego-enhancing feedback we all so love.

God, this Lenten season, may I learn to value my poverty more than my giftedness- my weakness more than my strength. Because it is in my weakness that Your strength and grace are shown and bring me to maturity.

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Leader Profile: Dustin Bagby

Dustin Bagby co-pastors the Evergreen Community in Portland, OR (with Luisa Gallagher). He has an M.Div from Western Seminary in Portland, and a B.A. in Preaching and Bible from Lincoln Christian University in Lincoln, Illinois. Dustin is married to Kelli, and they have two boys; Gram and Owen, and daughter Rose.

How would you describe the area your church is in?

Hipster. 🙂

How would you describe the journey of pastoring Evergreen? What have been some of the milestones/different seasons?

I’ve been at Evergreen for 13 years so there have been a lot of different seasons. It’s been exciting to be a part of a church that has been a healing place for so many people in the “formerly Christian” camp as well as people experiencing Jesus for the first time.

Looking back, what do you know now you wish you had known when you first started at Evergreen?

I’m not sure it’s as much about what I wish I would have known as much as who I wish I would have been. Certainly, we can’t become that person without a lot of experience and difficulties getting there, but to have been introduced to some works like Edwin Friedman’s A Failure of Nerve and the concepts that come with it earlier would have been VERY helpful.

As you think about what you’ve been able to do so far in ministry there what are some things you have done/tried that have worked well?

I think one of the key things we’ve tried that has worked well and has always been appreciated is leaving space for dialogue on Sundays as well as other environments where people can share honestly. It’s in that sharing where people realize that we’re not encouraging people to fake life or pretend everything is okay all the time. That honesty and authenticity have gone a long way in people realizing their need for Jesus and being able to encourage one another and care for each other.

What hasn’t worked so well? What have you had to rethink/reimagine/rework? What is one failure you experienced and what did you learn from it?

Just one? 🙂 I think one of the big failures from the last three years was the lack of thought we as leaders put into how we processed and dialogued about the LGBTQ conversation as a community. There was pressure from numerous people that the elders be explicit about our position and give them some kind of “statement.” We’ve always been a community where people have been allowed to “disagree without disengaging” and it just wasn’t something that was our number 1 priority. I think as we studied and processed as elders and then brought it before the community we didn’t do it as thoughtfully or thoroughly as we could have. Given the fact that our community is so split on their opinion on this, I’m not surprised that it was difficult and painful. But I think there are ways we could have alleviated that. I wish we would have come to a greater consensus on our elder team with more time as well as had a more open community forum where people could express their thoughts in a larger setting.

What is something you’ve been hearing from or learning from God in this last season of leading?

It seems like God has revealed lately a root of some of the challenges we’re experiencing right now. In an increasingly polarized and divisive time, it is very hard to continue to try to bridge the middle and be a church where conservatives and progressives are worshipping together as family. We’re encouraged to “take sides.” At Evergreen we are encouraging people to take Jesus’ side- who critiques both conservatives and progressives in deep ways. In Portland, sadly even amongst those who would call themselves Christ-followers, that is not a popular option.

What do you dream/hope/pray Evergreen looks like in five years?

In five years, I pray that Evergreen is a church community that has realized its potential for inviting and welcoming more people into the life of the family of God. I think a lot more formerly churched and unchurched people could meet Jesus, heal, and really thrive in our community if we continue to invite friends and neighbors into relationship with God and Evergreen.

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