Unless a Congregation Dies
Robert Frazier
January 23, 2019

Kingdom Mission doesn’t happen by accident. Here’s what we can do today to participate in God’s Kingdom Mission.

I am a bi-vocational church planter. In my day job I own a marketing agency that helps business leaders grow their organizations.

When I sit down with my clients I start by asking them where they want their business to be in two years and then where they want it to be in five years.

When they tell me where they want to be in two years, it is about survival and growth – 50% revenue increases, a dollar net income figure, adding locations and services, etc. When they tell me about their five year goals, however, they start talking about their  passions  – the things that come from their heart and drives their desire to grow and work.

I ask these same questions when I sit down with church planters.

When church planters tell me that they want to have a growing congregation that is self-sustaining in two years, it is about  survival. They want to make enough money as an organization to pay their bills and allow the pastor to work for the church full time.

When I ask what they want in five years, either they say things like ‘ bigger’ , ‘ more impact’ , ‘ more staff’ , ‘ more missions focus’ , and the like, or  they simply have no idea what they want.

Without clarity about the  telos –  the eventual end goal – the intermediate goals and the daily work are not clear.

Six months before we launched Redemption Hill, I was sitting at the Exponential Conference in Orange County and God was starting to shift my vision. I knew I was called to plant a church, and I thought it was about building a great organization. A healthy place for kingdom impact in a neighborhood. To grow and raise resources to spend on impact in the city…things like that.

That wasn’t a bad vision, but if it doesn’t grow, it would become toxic.  If our ministry is about growing our influence, our impact, or our organization, it is ultimately about us.  The gravitational pull is towards our internal community. Even outreach and mission become an expression of  our  virtue – a percentage of our wealth rather than a sacrificial investment.

Jesus’ words in John 12:24-26 could be said to us like this:

“Truly I say to you, unless a CONGREGATION dies, it remains alone, but if it dies it bears much fruit. Congregations who love their [community, building, programs] lose it, and congregations who hate their [community, building, programs] in this world will keep them for eternal life.”

(Robert’s translation)

As my vision started to shift, I asked a different question: How can I reach a whole city? How can I reach a whole region? How can I reach a whole country?

I don’t think it is my responsibility to make all those things happen on my own, but as a strategic question, it changed the vision for our church plant. We started to think about long term impact beyond the doors of our congregation. These words started to stick in my head that I heard at Exponential:  “My fruit will grow on other people’s trees.”  I realized I was supposed to make leaders who could multiply the kingdom mission beyond the doors of my leadership. Beyond the impact of our congregation.

Unless a congregation dies to itself, it remains alone, but if it dies it bears much fruit.

What if Jesus was talking to not just us as individuals, but as a movement? What if living to preserve the institutions that we built will keep us from making an eternal impact? Jesus understood how to build a movement, and it wasn’t through great organizational leadership. It wasn’t through institutional longevity. It wasn’t through crowds, wealth, resource hoarding, and buildings.  Jesus spent 70% of His time doing one thing: training and discipling twelve young people to own the vision and mission of the kingdom.

And it worked.

Maybe we shouldn’t just take the teachings of Jesus, but our ministry should look like the methods of Jesus. (see  The Master Plan of Evangelism  by Robert Coleman)

So as we started to ask how can we reach a whole city, God impressed on me that most of my time should be developing disciples who can lead as apostles, just like Jesus did.

So here’s how I’m trying to pursue that calling:

  1. My main job is not the crowd. They get 30% of my time, so Sunday prep only gets 30% of my church time. That means 5-7 hours per week including sermon prep.
  2. Every day my main metric for success and effectiveness centers around the question: how much time did I spend with the people I am training/discipling?
  3. I identify 8-12 leaders per year whose development I will prioritize; I will seek opportunities to help them grow in their christlikeness, character and competency.

How am I doing at it? Not great every week; but this metric helps me know when I am winning or not winning – when the kingdom is advancing or retreating.

If my fruit grows on other trees, and the Jesus movement is dependent on pouring into other people, I better be tending those other gardens as much as I tend my own.

By Bob Hyatt • October 7, 2026
“When God works in us nothing is useless, and nothing is spared.” - Jeannine Brown, Carla Dahl and Wendy Corbin Reuschling, Becoming Whole and Holy “There is no circumstance, no trouble, no testing, that can ever touch me until, first of all, it has gone past God and past Christ, right through to me. If it has come that far, it has come with great purpose, which I may not understand at the moment.” - Alan Redpath Here's something I've noticed about people as they get older: they tend to go one of two ways. They either get sweeter with age or they get crankier. They grow wiser and more like Jesus, or they grow bitter and more like the worst version of themselves. That's because life is formation. Everything we do and everything we go through shapes us one way or the other, mostly depending on how we respond to what happens to us, whether it's extraordinary or completely ordinary. Ministry works the same way. I've watched leaders come out of nearly identical trials in completely different shape. Some come out stronger. Others come out deeply wounded, discouraged, and ready to quit. The difference usually comes down to where they see God in the middle of the struggle, absent or present, and what questions they ask about it. Some ask, "God, why is this happening to me?" Others ask, "God, what could you want to form in me through this?" Both views of God will shape us, and so will both questions. They just shape us in very different directions. In my experience, the most common sin in church leadership is an obsession with numbers and results, paired with neglect of our own souls. On top of that, we rarely stop to notice how those numbers and results, and how ministry itself, are shaping us. So here's my suggestion: stop working so hard to develop your ministry and start noticing that your ministry is developing you. How you handle the realities of church leadership will determine not only what your church becomes but what you become. Leadership and ministry will form you. The only question is: into what? One tool God uses: the fishbowl Some people hesitate to become a pastor because it opens them up to scrutiny, and now and then to outright criticism. When I was a young leader, I hated the "fishbowl effect" of ministry. Everyone was watching me, and my mistakes seemed to count for a lot more than anyone else's. It felt deeply unfair that flaws that wouldn't even register at most people's jobs could cost me my job, my reputation, and my community. Never mind that maybe it bothered me so much because I had such a generous supply of those flaws. After years of living under the steady gaze of critics and cranks, I see the fishbowl differently. These days I actually welcome it. Richard Baxter, a Puritan pastor in the 1600s, put it this way: “While you are as lights set upon a hill, think not to lie hid... do your work as those that remember that the world looks on them... ready to make the worst of all... and to make faults where they cannot find them.”[1] Baxter understood that anyone who calls others to live like Jesus is going to get called out when they don't. His advice? Live like the world is watching, because it is. Some people in your life are ready to yell "Hypocrite!" at the first opportunity, to point out failings they share themselves, and, as Baxter says, even to invent faults when they can't find real ones. And Baxter's fishbowl had a few neighbors peering over the fence. Ours has a livestream, a comment section, and someone screenshotting the announcements. But Baxter goes further. He says we should be glad about it: “As you take yourselves for the lights of the churches, you may expect that men's eyes will be upon you. If other men may sin without observation, so cannot you. And you should thankfully consider how great a mercy this is, that you have so many eyes to watch over you, and so many ready to tell you of your faults; and thus have greater helps than others, at least for restraining you from sin. Though they may do it with a malicious mind, yet you have the advantage of it.” As a Pastor, you have more eyes on you and more people paying attention to how you live. That means you have more help than most in living well and avoiding sin. What some people mean for evil, God means for your good (Genesis 50:20). What looks like a downside of ministry turns out to be a path to maturity, to formation. In practical terms, living your life in front of others pushes you to do what you already know you should do. And it often keeps you out of things you might slide into if nobody were watching. One important caveat: embracing accountability isn't the same as tolerating abuse. Healthy scrutiny sharpens you. A congregant who attacks your spouse or treats your kids like church property is a different problem, and it calls for boundaries, not gratitude. Let's be clear, though: the fishbowl isn't enough on its own. What we're really after is internal: character, a changed heart. But knowing we're living out loud in front of a watching church and a watching world gives us structure, and that structure can help us build the habits and rhythms of holiness we want. As we try to let the heart and character of Christ take deeper root in us, we have the advantage of lots of eyes around us "encouraging" us to stay on the straight and narrow. My sense is that people who embrace this find that, over time, what starts on the outside moves more and more to the inside. Slowly, the choices we make because others are watching become, through habit, real character. Because I know people are watching, I think twice about what I say in public, what I scroll past on my phone, and how I talk to my kids at church or out on the sidewalk in front of the neighbors. More and more, those choices, first made because of an audience, become part of who I am. That's especially true when I treat those moments as kairos [2] moments: times when God breaks in and uses my awareness of a watching world to show me the character He wants to form in me and the choices He'd like me to make. But what if we don't embrace it? What about those who get shipwrecked by moral failure, character flaws, and private sins gone public? People who resent the fishbowl of ministry and the Christian life often end up living one way in public and another in private. It's as if their anger at being scrutinized pushes them into a divided life: they'll play by the rules in public but insist on their own rules in private. Frustrated with the audience around them, so eager to find fault, they forget the true Audience they live before. And as we've all seen from too many spectacular crash-and-burns, the fallout is often devastating. Families, churches, and the reputation of the whole Church take serious damage. Pastors, recognize that your formation is happening, one way or another… and make peace with the fishbowl. It's going to be there whether you like it or not. If you embrace it, you may find it spurring you on toward love and good deeds (Hebrews 10:24) and keeping you clear of the sins that have taken down so many in ministry before you. “You should thankfully consider how great a mercy this is, that you have so many eyes to watch over you.” Let the Holy Spirit use your public life, and every eye watching it, to shape and form you. The fishbowl and the formation of a life in ministry are coming either way. Let them help answer the question: into what? To further explore your own formation through ministry, join us at the Multiply Summit with special guest Rich Villodas this coming February in the Washington, D.C. area! Adapted from Eldership and the Mission of God by Bob Hyatt and J.R. Briggs. [1] Richard Baxter, The Reformed Pastor, London, 1657, p. 21. [2] Kairos is one of the Greek words for time, but it's different from chronos. Chronos is linear, calendar time. Kairos refers to significant moments full of possibility. Here, it means those times when God steps into chronos.
By Bob Hyatt • April 13, 2026
Here's a message from Ecclesia Pastor Aaron Graham